I found few interesting modern works, and want to share them here, too.
https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1141617/FULLTEXT01.pdf
ARE YOU READY FOR A WET LIVE-IN?
EXPLORATIONS INTO LISTENING
JANNA HOLMSTEDT
Very big manuscript, and very interesting. There are some quotes I picked up while reading it:
---copypasta!------
" As late as 1999, two years before his death, Lilly
presented an idea for a Future Communications Labo-
ratory where dolphins, instead of being held captive,
could voluntarily visit the lab in a variety of areas,
ranging from deep sea (most compatible for the dol-
phins) to dry house (most compatible for the humans).**
Human-dolphin communication would be facilitated in
different ways along this continuum from dry to wet.
** The idea for this lab was presented 1999 as a series of 3D renderings
on Lilly’s website, “The Future Communications Lab,” where a pixe-
lated Lilly at the close of the 20th Century described the concept
of the future facility. Accessed April 4, 2004,
http://www.johnclilly.com/futureComm20.html. On August 4, 2016, a film appeared on YouTube, “John C. Lilly: Interview at Future Communications Lab,” posted by “bigtwinNYC,” August 4, 2016, showing Lilly on a virtual set depicting the laboratory, designed by Bigtwin (a.k.a. James Suhre). Lilly was filmed and interviewed for this video in October 1998 in SMA Studios in New York City. Accessed April 17, 2017,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-knqVbghIA
---copy end-----
Interesting, I don't get it this (_voluntary_!) way, but may be I misread teh site .....
after some follow-up I watched video and re-read text at Lilly's website.
https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1141617/FULLTEXT01.pdf
ARE YOU READY FOR A WET LIVE-IN?
EXPLORATIONS INTO LISTENING
JANNA HOLMSTEDT
Very big manuscript, and very interesting. There are some quotes I picked up while reading it:
---copypasta!------
" As late as 1999, two years before his death, Lilly
presented an idea for a Future Communications Labo-
ratory where dolphins, instead of being held captive,
could voluntarily visit the lab in a variety of areas,
ranging from deep sea (most compatible for the dol-
phins) to dry house (most compatible for the humans).**
Human-dolphin communication would be facilitated in
different ways along this continuum from dry to wet.
** The idea for this lab was presented 1999 as a series of 3D renderings
on Lilly’s website, “The Future Communications Lab,” where a pixe-
lated Lilly at the close of the 20th Century described the concept
of the future facility. Accessed April 4, 2004,
http://www.johnclilly.com/futureComm20.html. On August 4, 2016, a film appeared on YouTube, “John C. Lilly: Interview at Future Communications Lab,” posted by “bigtwinNYC,” August 4, 2016, showing Lilly on a virtual set depicting the laboratory, designed by Bigtwin (a.k.a. James Suhre). Lilly was filmed and interviewed for this video in October 1998 in SMA Studios in New York City. Accessed April 17, 2017,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-knqVbghIA
---copy end-----
Interesting, I don't get it this (_voluntary_!) way, but may be I misread teh site .....
after some follow-up I watched video and re-read text at Lilly's website.
Andrew Randrianasulu "The
priorities of society are such that our best minds and efforts are lost
to a philosophy that if it cannot produce financial gain, it is not
worth doing--at the expense of the truth and our environment." (c)
--anyway, I was wrong, yes, despite those elements from today's (and past) captivity it was supposed to be voluntary place. Still, for _inviting_ cetacea to someplace you already need some quite complex communication and trust - and confidence whole thing will not turn into trap (not something you can say about 'default society')! In absence of "tens of millions" (of US dollars) we are forced (hopefully!) to do all this communication thing with friends we have around.
--anyway, I was wrong, yes, despite those elements from today's (and past) captivity it was supposed to be voluntary place. Still, for _inviting_ cetacea to someplace you already need some quite complex communication and trust - and confidence whole thing will not turn into trap (not something you can say about 'default society')! In absence of "tens of millions" (of US dollars) we are forced (hopefully!) to do all this communication thing with friends we have around.
Andrew Randrianasulu but
yes, I was wrong and right at the same time - just next page openly
demand keeping of current captivity intact, because, meh, "education"!
Interestingly, at the same page very correct observations made about
scientists who are NOT interested about communicating
w/. dolphins because this doesn't bring them money! (and as side note,
if they figure out how to make this 'communication' thing bring them
money - they will be much interested in reinstansin this moneymaking
effect, not any communication, esp. if it threatened their main monetary
motive!). So, page is selfcontradicting ... Education imagined as
something magical, like, you put 100 humans into dolphinarium, hit
'Educate" button, and they come out educated! Well, this doesn't work
this way - without thinking, and critical thinking, years and decades of
thinking - it all will be too fragmentary and just way to manipulate
someone at best. No _accurate_ image of reality can be approximated this
way, with just fragment of thinking drowned in sea of enforced
stupidarity! Anyway, Lilly is dead for more than 15 years ..no point to
argue with dead man..but lets not repeat very same mistake about
'instant (human) education' and underestimating power of monetary flow
(not just amount!) have on current humans. Dolphinarium is place where
money keep its owners captive, they keep their human workers captive,
and those in turn keep captive audience/visitors and cetacea themselves,
who are at the bottom of this sea of shit, not allowed to do
anything! And while captivity CAN generate strong supporters of cetacea
(me, Russell, Ken ...) - it does so only in conjunction with producing
literally MILLIONS of sheeple, who are way too tolerant to any powerful
voice who want to keep those beings captive(and/or do other
intolerable things). So, captivity only support itself ...And very fact
you can't do anything truely dolphin-centered today is very good
indicator of this. Also, this utilitarian thinking 'oh, there are much
more killings of cetacea in the world, so captivity is non-issue!' is
BS. Same self-supporting acute disrespect/destruction at work here. Even
worse, because it morphing into something 'quite acceptable' with all
those TALKS about 'rehabilitation', caring, etc, etc. While in reality
they just apply same non-ethics to real non-humans, it just covered more
colorifully for humans!
Anyway, read for yourself:
http://www.johnclilly.com/futureComm41.html
*********************
Anyway, read for yourself:
http://www.johnclilly.com/futureComm41.html
*********************
-----------
In OOZ projects, for example, the concept of the zoo is turned around. Every
OOZ site consists of an “an architecture of reciprocity,”
and “an information architecture of collective obser-
vation and interpretation.” Unlike Hall’s Enki Experi-
ment, there are no cages or aquariums and the animals
are there by choice. In some set-ups the animals can
trigger a prerecorded human voice, that urges the hu-
man to act in a specific way, for example to deliver a
dose of beaver biscuits to the hungry beaver or provide
a service to a pigeon.24 Through these various reversed
system designs, where animals can trigger acousmatic
human voices, anthropomorphism could be said to
be used as a tool to address environmental concerns
and issues of interconnectedness. Communication is
approached in terms of shared ecology rather than as
a question of information transmission.*
------------
Another very interesting idea, very close to role-reversal thing I first found by reading Ken LeVasseur's texts. But I think we need to make it work at deeper, more complex level.
*************************
In OOZ projects, for example, the concept of the zoo is turned around. Every
OOZ site consists of an “an architecture of reciprocity,”
and “an information architecture of collective obser-
vation and interpretation.” Unlike Hall’s Enki Experi-
ment, there are no cages or aquariums and the animals
are there by choice. In some set-ups the animals can
trigger a prerecorded human voice, that urges the hu-
man to act in a specific way, for example to deliver a
dose of beaver biscuits to the hungry beaver or provide
a service to a pigeon.24 Through these various reversed
system designs, where animals can trigger acousmatic
human voices, anthropomorphism could be said to
be used as a tool to address environmental concerns
and issues of interconnectedness. Communication is
approached in terms of shared ecology rather than as
a question of information transmission.*
------------
Another very interesting idea, very close to role-reversal thing I first found by reading Ken LeVasseur's texts. But I think we need to make it work at deeper, more complex level.
*************************
------------------
** In ancient Greece, it was believed that knowledge could not be
stored in books, only in living bodies inhabiting space. Writing and
reading were not regarded as tools for transferring knowledge. On the
contrary, Plato argued that the technology of writing would produce
forgetfulness – because the reader is seduced by the written word to
believe that thoughts and wisdom can be fixed once and for all and
tends to forget that knowledge is a living thing.
-------------
this is unusual (for me) reading of Plato ...still, I haven't read him at all, yet!
**********************
** In ancient Greece, it was believed that knowledge could not be
stored in books, only in living bodies inhabiting space. Writing and
reading were not regarded as tools for transferring knowledge. On the
contrary, Plato argued that the technology of writing would produce
forgetfulness – because the reader is seduced by the written word to
believe that thoughts and wisdom can be fixed once and for all and
tends to forget that knowledge is a living thing.
-------------
this is unusual (for me) reading of Plato ...still, I haven't read him at all, yet!
**********************
Art as a social action or event, thus, is at risk of being reduced to
spectacle or contributing to an aestheticization of the service economy where all critique eventually drowns or is hugged to death.
---end of quotation-------
There was reference to book "Cosmodolphins", I was unable to find full text online, but surely I found fragment of it:
http://archeologia.women.it/user/cyberarchive/files/lykke-bryld.html
spectacle or contributing to an aestheticization of the service economy where all critique eventually drowns or is hugged to death.
---end of quotation-------
There was reference to book "Cosmodolphins", I was unable to find full text online, but surely I found fragment of it:
http://archeologia.women.it/user/cyberarchive/files/lykke-bryld.html
Cosmodolphins.
Feminist Cultural Studies
of Technology, Animals and the Sacred
by: Mette Bryld and Nina Lykke
of Technology, Animals and the Sacred
by: Mette Bryld and Nina Lykke
well, re-watching Lilly's interview AFTER reading this fragment definitely was eye-opener!
And finally, there was some thesis based on reading "Cosmodolphins" book!
Andrew Randrianasulu
------------------
“When presented with the idea of making a major lifestyle change that would involve moving from land to sea, only 3 of the 107 women interviewed rejected their partner’s proposed change outright and chose not to cruising. Some of the 104 women who took the risk of embracing the idea were eager participants from the outset: their primary question was ‘how soon can we leave?’ […] 0 percent of the women let their fear of water or lack of sailing experience prevent them from making a change”(Cantrell 2000, 16–08).
-----------
this of course can be biased view ......
Also, I tend to disagree with Janna's view of Marino, Herzing and co as female alt.heroes - they unfortunately turned out to be too dominant type for actually becoming any alternative. But for some reason Janna's name in itself sounded much alike name of female character in Vernor Vinge's sci-fi called "A fire upon the deep" - where contact with group-mind aliens was made by young humans, who were forced to find their way to make Contact..as additional twist those group minds communicated at ultrasound frequencies, but were good imitators. I don't think our real cetacea are group minds in classical sense - yet I found this interinfiltartion of ideas quite ...interesting!
Also, may be if humans will be able to tell _interesting_ stories to cetacea - it will be something valuable for them, too! Thanks, Janna, for digging out all this massive of info, and adding your own life/thinking to it!
------------------
“When presented with the idea of making a major lifestyle change that would involve moving from land to sea, only 3 of the 107 women interviewed rejected their partner’s proposed change outright and chose not to cruising. Some of the 104 women who took the risk of embracing the idea were eager participants from the outset: their primary question was ‘how soon can we leave?’ […] 0 percent of the women let their fear of water or lack of sailing experience prevent them from making a change”(Cantrell 2000, 16–08).
-----------
this of course can be biased view ......
Also, I tend to disagree with Janna's view of Marino, Herzing and co as female alt.heroes - they unfortunately turned out to be too dominant type for actually becoming any alternative. But for some reason Janna's name in itself sounded much alike name of female character in Vernor Vinge's sci-fi called "A fire upon the deep" - where contact with group-mind aliens was made by young humans, who were forced to find their way to make Contact..as additional twist those group minds communicated at ultrasound frequencies, but were good imitators. I don't think our real cetacea are group minds in classical sense - yet I found this interinfiltartion of ideas quite ...interesting!
Also, may be if humans will be able to tell _interesting_ stories to cetacea - it will be something valuable for them, too! Thanks, Janna, for digging out all this massive of info, and adding your own life/thinking to it!
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